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Thread: No Free Pass For Podcasts

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donovan View Post
    Thanks for the info, Paul. I'll play around with it just for my own educational purposes, but since Mike told me not to touch anything because my audio sounded almost perfect, I'm hesitant to really change anything on my productions. I'm always willing to learn, though!
    You're welcome! Keep me posted.

    -paul.

  2. #12
    IAIB Broadcaster Donovan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptfigg View Post
    Here's what I mean:

    Watch this short demo Video.

    Keep an eye on the numerical Output Gain during playback. You'll notice even though it's level is set to -1.5 dB, the actual Peak Ceiling is surpassing it.

    The -1.5 dB Peak Ceiling of the output is maintained once I define -1.5 dB as the Margin in the Limiter settings area. This is the correct way to set up Limiting and to prevent clipping down stream.

    -paul.
    Ah, I see what you mean. I'll tinker with that. It seems to me it can do nothing but help.
    Donovan Adkisson
    Adkisson Digital
    http://www.adkissondigital.com
    http://about.me/gdadkisson | Twitter: @gdadkisson
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Have you read my books?
    Podcasting: Year One http://www.donovanadkisson.com/pyo
    Fifty and Furious http://www.donovanadkisson.com/fifty

  3. #13
    Senior Member Dan Ortego's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donovan View Post
    Thanks for the info, Paul. I'll play around with it just for my own educational purposes, but since Mike told me not to touch anything because my audio sounded almost perfect, I'm hesitant to really change anything on my productions. I'm always willing to learn, though!
    Yes Donovan, your audio does sound great so perhaps it would be nice if you would share your own secret sauce of gear and settings. The audio part of this hobby is what ultimately sucked me in, though I'm not sure why. Maybe its a quest for technical excellence or simply just a guy thing'.
    Last edited by Dan Ortego; 08-19-2014 at 08:21 AM.
    My top-secret email address is: DanOrtego {at} gmail

  4. #14
    IAIB Broadcaster Donovan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Ortego View Post
    Yes Donovan, your audio does sound great so perhaps it would be nice if you would share your own secret sauce of gear and settings. The audio part of this hobby is what ultimately sucked me in though I'm not sure why. Maybe its a quest for technical excellence or simply just a guy thing'.
    I've actually started putting something together showing the settings on my mixer, sound card levels, etc. I'll definitely share it once I've completed it. Nothing I'm doing is secret and the more we share, the more informed we are and the better experience we provide for our listeners!
    Donovan Adkisson
    Adkisson Digital
    http://www.adkissondigital.com
    http://about.me/gdadkisson | Twitter: @gdadkisson
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Have you read my books?
    Podcasting: Year One http://www.donovanadkisson.com/pyo
    Fifty and Furious http://www.donovanadkisson.com/fifty

  5. #15
    Moderator / IAIB Pro Broadcaster mcphillips's Avatar
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    Donovan and everyone else reading this thread, pay very close attention to Paul's advice. While I realize his analysis is over a lot of heads, it's well worth spending the time to understand what he is saying. Donovan, you are free to follow his advice about maximum levels. Reducing the peak level on your files by 1.5dB will not alter the tonality, but it may save you some clipping. In fact, it would be helpful if Paul would analyze one of your released MP3 files.

    Paul, what software are you using to do the analysis? It's useful to separate the men from the boys. I will confess that I am guilty of normalizing and hard limiting wave files to levels higher than -1.5 dB. That procedure changes today. The additional 1.5 dB does not really add to the loudness of the audio, and it does contribute to the clipping and other undesirable results from MP3 conversions.

    Guys, this stuff is good. Embrace it. Once you do, you will be leagues above the "on fire" and "answerman" guys when it comes to professionalism in audio quality.

    If you just can't get the hang of what Paul is saying, just normalize or hard limit your audio files to -1.5 dB instead of 0dB. It will LOOK different in your software, but you will get used to it.
    Please direct all questions for me to the forum so that all can benefit.

  6. #16
    IAIB Broadcaster Donovan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcphillips View Post
    Donovan and everyone else reading this thread, pay very close attention to Paul's advice. While I realize his analysis is over a lot of heads, it's well worth spending the time to understand what he is saying. Donovan, you are free to follow his advice about maximum levels. Reducing the peak level on your files by 1.5dB will not alter the tonality, but it may save you some clipping. In fact, it would be helpful if Paul would analyze one of your released MP3 files.

    Paul, what software are you using to do the analysis? It's useful to separate the men from the boys. I will confess that I am guilty of normalizing and hard limiting wave files to levels higher than -1.5 dB. That procedure changes today. The additional 1.5 dB does not really add to the loudness of the audio, and it does contribute to the clipping and other undesirable results from MP3 conversions.

    Guys, this stuff is good. Embrace it. Once you do, you will be leagues above the "on fire" and "answerman" guys when it comes to professionalism in audio quality.

    If you just can't get the hang of what Paul is saying, just normalize or hard limit your audio files to -1.5 dB instead of 0dB. It will LOOK different in your software, but you will get used to it.
    I made the adjustment last night for episode 26 of my show. Though I can't hear a difference, I do feel better watching the levels never go above -1.5db, which is what I wanted in the first place.

    The other thing I'm going to test is my process. I apply the multi-band compressor first and then apply the dynamics processor that has my own settings. I'm going to switch it up and see how it sounds if I apply the dynamics processor first and then the multi-band compressor. I think I've done that in the past, but I need to try it and hear it again to be sure. As I said, I'm always willing to learn more!
    Donovan Adkisson
    Adkisson Digital
    http://www.adkissondigital.com
    http://about.me/gdadkisson | Twitter: @gdadkisson
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Have you read my books?
    Podcasting: Year One http://www.donovanadkisson.com/pyo
    Fifty and Furious http://www.donovanadkisson.com/fifty

  7. #17
    IAIB Broadcaster Donovan's Avatar
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    And if he wants to analyze one of my podcasts, might I suggest last night's episode 26 which is at http://www.donovanadkisson.com/tds26

    I'd love to see what he finds.
    Donovan Adkisson
    Adkisson Digital
    http://www.adkissondigital.com
    http://about.me/gdadkisson | Twitter: @gdadkisson
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Have you read my books?
    Podcasting: Year One http://www.donovanadkisson.com/pyo
    Fifty and Furious http://www.donovanadkisson.com/fifty

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcphillips View Post
    Donovan and everyone else reading this thread, pay very close attention to Paul's advice. While I realize his analysis is over a lot of heads, it's well worth spending the time to understand what he is saying. Donovan, you are free to follow his advice about maximum levels. Reducing the peak level on your files by 1.5dB will not alter the tonality, but it may save you some clipping. In fact, it would be helpful if Paul would analyze one of your released MP3 files.

    Paul, what software are you using to do the analysis? It's useful to separate the men from the boys. I will confess that I am guilty of normalizing and hard limiting wave files to levels higher than -1.5 dB. That procedure changes today. The additional 1.5 dB does not really add to the loudness of the audio, and it does contribute to the clipping and other undesirable results from MP3 conversions.

    Guys, this stuff is good. Embrace it. Once you do, you will be leagues above the "on fire" and "answerman" guys when it comes to professionalism in audio quality.

    If you just can't get the hang of what Paul is saying, just normalize or hard limit your audio files to -1.5 dB instead of 0dB. It will LOOK different in your software, but you will get used to it.
    Thanks Mike.

    I used three different tools in the data analysis snapshot: SoX, ffmpeg, and afclip. All command line tools. The comprehensive analysis was done in Sox. The Loudness measurement was done using FFmpeg. And the Intersample Peak analysis was done using apple's afclip, which is part of the "Mastering for iTunes" toolkit.

    For Loudness analysis, including all additional aspects of the specs. - I use Loudness meters both "online" (realtime). or "offline." This was done in TC Electronics LM2n meter:



    Besides the obvious stats. - the radar displays the Short Term Loudness over time.

    If anyone wants to experiment with the command line tools, let me know. I'll help you with the syntax. It's really not that big of a deal. Keep in mind you will need to install the compiled binaries before you can use the tools.

    Also, my guess is allot of people here use Adobe Audition? Well you have comprehensive analysis built in, including Peak Amplitude, True Peak, Total RMS, and ITU Loudness specs. It's located in the Window menu/Amplitude Statistics.

    Keep in mind that if you follow best practices in post, the limiting and/or normalization that would result in Peak Ceiling compliance does not necessarily result in those chopped, blocky waveforms that are prevalent in the podcasting community.

    For example look here:



    This clip has a Peak Ceiling of -1.5 dBFS. Sure it's compressed - but remember we're dealing with spoken word processing and not music mastering. It's two entirely different concepts. The point is I was able to process this audio to meet both a Program Loudness target and a suitable Peak Ceiling while retaining acceptable transient response for highly dynamic spoken word.

    And again I reiterate - be aware of the differences between Peak amplitude and Program Loudness ( Integrated/Average loudness). They're not the same, and they need to be dealt with independently.

    -paul.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donovan View Post
    I made the adjustment last night for episode 26 of my show. Though I can't hear a difference, I do feel better watching the levels never go above -1.5db, which is what I wanted in the first place.

    The other thing I'm going to test is my process. I apply the multi-band compressor first and then apply the dynamics processor that has my own settings. I'm going to switch it up and see how it sounds if I apply the dynamics processor first and then the multi-band compressor. I think I've done that in the past, but I need to try it and hear it again to be sure. As I said, I'm always willing to learn more!
    Donovan,

    Cool. Remember the Peak Ceiling compliance issue is not an audio enhancement process. The sole purpose of it is to prevent overload (clipping).

    Keep in mind that the Limiting for compliance purposes should always be located at the very last stage of the processing chain. This holds true whether you are using a Limiter or if you are simply peak normalizing, just to adhere to s suitable Ceiling.

    -paul.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donovan View Post
    And if he wants to analyze one of my podcasts, might I suggest last night's episode 26 which is at http://www.donovanadkisson.com/tds26

    I'd love to see what he finds.
    I already did , although I think it was the previous episode. The Peak Amplitude was 0 dBFS and there were Intersample Peaks. With respect if you submitted that to me it would not comply.

    Your Program Loudness was close to the recommended spec, so that's good. OTOH that's entirely different issue that I'm sure we will get into.

    I'll check the most recent episode ...

    -paul.

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