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Thread: Do You Need Mix Minus ? What?

  1. #1
    Senior Member PaulSaunders's Avatar
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    Do You Need Mix Minus ? What?

    Sorry to rant about this but Im shocked to see so many people say that mix minus is not needed or important. I dont understand how this is even an option. Say that to any broadcasting engineer and they will laugh in your face.

    Is saying you dont need a mix minus the cool thing now? Is it a buzz term? Its so annoying to see people make comments like " Skype does mix minus automatically" Bottom line is if you are using a mixer.. you should be using mix minus.


    Rant over
    Paul

  2. #2
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    It is a contextual thing. If you don't do the things needing mix minus then you don't need it.

    The world is full of experts. I recall how people that installed a dial up modem thought they were experts, if the modem worked.
    Early internet days brought out an entire genre of users... that were self styled experts.

    There is still that..."self styled experts"

  3. #3
    Moderator / IAIB Pro Broadcaster mcphillips's Avatar
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    If you listen to some of the "stuff" that people call a podcast, it's easy to see why they don't think they need mix minus.
    Please direct all questions for me to the forum so that all can benefit.

  4. #4
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    Paul,

    I have an Onyx 1220i and don't use mix minus when making Skype calls. Since the interface to the computer is firewire and has the channels split up going to the computer, only channel 1 (my microphone) is the input used by Skype.

    I send computer audio to the mixer on the last two channels and then can record that along with my microphone as separate channels in my DAW.

    There are, of course, limitations if I wanted to send other sources to Skype.

    Does this sound plausible where mix minus wouldn't be needed? I'm new to mixers, but it's worked well for me so far.

  5. #5
    Moderator / IAIB Pro Broadcaster mcphillips's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by obanta View Post
    Paul,

    I have an Onyx 1220i and don't use mix minus when making Skype calls. Since the interface to the computer is firewire and has the channels split up going to the computer, only channel 1 (my microphone) is the input used by Skype.

    I send computer audio to the mixer on the last two channels and then can record that along with my microphone as separate channels in my DAW.

    There are, of course, limitations if I wanted to send other sources to Skype.

    Does this sound plausible where mix minus wouldn't be needed? I'm new to mixers, but it's worked well for me so far.
    Does Skype see the Firewire channels on your mixer?
    Please direct all questions for me to the forum so that all can benefit.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by obanta View Post
    Paul,

    I have an Onyx 1220i and don't use mix minus when making Skype calls. Since the interface to the computer is firewire and has the channels split up going to the computer, only channel 1 (my microphone) is the input used by Skype.

    I send computer audio to the mixer on the last two channels and then can record that along with my microphone as separate channels in my DAW.

    There are, of course, limitations if I wanted to send other sources to Skype.

    Does this sound plausible where mix minus wouldn't be needed? I'm new to mixers, but it's worked well for me so far.
    Here's how I do it on a Mackie 1220i:

    Skype does not recognize individual mixer channels as inputs via Firewire. It simply picks up the main outputs from the mixer. If you are bringing the Skype output back into the mixer for recording, you must "minus" that out so the Skype participant doesn't hear it.

    Look for the two Firewire buttons located below the Gain control on Channel 11 + 12:



    The Firewire Input button allows you to set the source(s) on that channel to either the line connections on the 1/4" jacks or through Firewire 1+2. Press that switch. In the Source Matrix controls you want to make sure that you are NOT assigning FW 1+2 to the Main Mix.

    So now you have your mic going out to Skype via Firewire, and the Skype output coming back into the mixer without reinserting Skype back to itself. There's your mix minus.

    The mix can then be sent out to an external recorder. You can also set things up inside a DAW. I'll explain if you are interested.

    -paul.

  7. #7
    Moderator / IAIB Pro Broadcaster mcphillips's Avatar
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    Paul, I understand mixers, Firewire, Skype, and mix-minus. What I'm curious about is how Skype sees your Firewire. It recognizes one of my Firewire connections on my Presonus 16.4.2, but it doesn't recognize all of them. It would be fabulous if Skype recognized the Aux Sends, but it doesn't.
    Please direct all questions for me to the forum so that all can benefit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mcphillips View Post
    Paul, I understand mixers, Firewire, Skype, and mix-minus. What I'm curious about is how Skype sees your Firewire. It recognizes one of my Firewire connections on my Presonus 16.4.2, but it doesn't recognize all of them. It would be fabulous if Skype recognized the Aux Sends, but it doesn't.
    Hi Mike,

    If I understand you correctly, my situation is the same. In the Skype Preferences I have "Microphone" set to the Onyx Mixer. So Skype is picking up the Main Mix through Firewire. That's it ...

    Conversely, and from a recording perspective in a DAW - I can route individual mixer channel sources to individual tracks in Pro Tools, including the Skype feed.

    -paul.

  9. #9
    Moderator / IAIB Pro Broadcaster mcphillips's Avatar
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    Skype does not see the Firewire channels of my Presonus mixer. It sees every USB input that I throw at it.
    Please direct all questions for me to the forum so that all can benefit.

  10. #10
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    Hi Paul,

    I haven't had the same experience with the Onyx Mixer, Skype, and the Main Mix. When I tried using a microphone connected to channel 2 or 3, as an example, the DAW saw the audio fine on those channels but the person on the other end of Skype never heard me. My understanding was that Skype only sent channel 1, even though it doesn't provide any UI visibility into the firewire channels.

    If I'm not using the Main Mix correctly, please let know. I've setup my mixer similar to how you explained, but what channel(s) would the main mix be presented to the DAW through the firewire interface?

    One solution I considered, but haven't needed and therefore tested, is using a virtual audio device that takes multiple firewire channels for its input and outputs a single channel that Skype would use for its input.

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