Small, Portable, Mix minus - a puzzle with missing pieces

Hi. I’ve been reading my way through forum posts, picking up great information along the way. Thanks very much to both the questioners and those with the answers. You’ve all helped me define my issues.

I’m starting a new project which will produce podcasts (and, later, videos) along with a website, e-books and so on. I’ve run websites before but this will be my first foray into podcasting.

Here’s what I’m planning to do:

1. Single person (me), studio recordings (studio is optimistic, cupboard maybe)
2. Face to face interviews in interviewee’s office/workspace. Usually one to one but could be more as a round table discussion
3. Skype or other VoiP interviews, usually one to one but could be up to 4 people.
4. Simple intro/outro music

I’m after good quality within the framework of internet-delivery and mostly earplug/headphone using listeners. Clean sound, no wildly fluctuating levels, some body and presence - I’d be happy with this.

These are the constraints I’ve already identified:

5. The whole setup needs to be portable, I am often away from home for several months at a time, working from hotel rooms, short-term lets etc
6. I don’t have a dedicated space, even at home, to use as a studio
7. Later on, it needs to play well with a video camera (brand/type not yet identified)

Equipment I already own:

1. MacBook Air, mid 2011, 1.8GHz processor, Intel i7 Core, 4GB memory, Intel HDGraphics 3000 384, running OSX Yosemite
2. Assorted external HD’s of 1-3 TB
3. Apple PowerBook G4 (pre Intel chip) as a backup/second machine
4. Smartphone 5, 64 GB
5. iPad mini (Version 2: retina), 128 GB
6.Sennheiser TR220 headphones (very good quality but not closed)
7. ATR-2100 mic (on order)

I’ve started with the mic. That was relatively easy. I know I’ll need more. I’m thinking of a second ATR2100 and/or 2 Lavalier mics. perhaps Rode SmartLav+. Any comments on those or the usefulness of such a combo?

It’s the mixer that’s really giving me pause. I need it portable and hardy but still able to deal with multiple voices, whether over Skype or in the room. Standard mixers with 4 aux outlets are too big and heavy for my purposes. I’m thinking of the Zoom H6. I also checked out the Tascam DR-40 and DR-44WL. Their price is very attractive, it’s around half of that of the Zoom. But I didn’t think they were as flexible and, overall, Zoom owners seemed more satisfied with the performance of their units.

The H6 looks as though it would do most of what I need BUT it seems to have no mix-minus capability. What to do there? Could I use some combination of my various bits of equipment to isolate the Skype caller’s voice? And what if there is more than one Skype-r? I looked for software that might do the mix minus for me, but haven’t been able to find any to date.

I was temporarily excited by podclear.com which was mentioned on these forums, but it has been bought up by blab.im which seems wholly focused on video hosted on their proprietary platform. I saw that domineaux recommended Voicemeeter, which has mix minus capability, but it is PC only and I'm firmly in the Mac world.

This is the big thing I need some help with - finding preferably one robust piece of equipment to record interviews in the field and bring Skype calls into the ‘studio’. The whole kit and caboodle, together with my existing equipment, must be able to be easily toted around the world. I’m looking for the least possible equipment (total size and weight all up) consistent with good quality output over the internet.

If I go with the Zoom H6 (or an alternative that might be suggested), will that, plus software that someone may be able to identify for me, be enough for me to start with? The system has to include Skype to be viable.

There are many things that I might need or want to get later on. Right now I’m looking for the most basic combination that will get me started and let me do Skype calls. Hardware or software needs to work in the Apple environment. I’ll be really grateful for comments, ideas and suggestions.

Elle

Good Morning Elle.

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Originally Posted by Dana

On to doing a Mix Minus. As far as I know, there is no software that will allow you to do this. Like I said, as far as I know. The soundboard / mixer can do this, ONLY if it has Auxiliary Sends. This is where you would run the Skype caller into. It allows you to record their input, but also allows you to block, the sound of their own voice from feeding back to them. So when you decide to buy a mixer, make sure it has this feature or you will not be able to achieve a Mix Minus. Guitar Center has a new line they are representing that is partnered with Alesis. It is $69.00 and very portable and will allow you to do a Mix Minus.

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I don't use a mixer and get a mix minus with Audio Hijack and Soundflower on my Mac. Skype uses Soundflower (2Ch) for the input and I have Audio Hijack routing the audio from my mic and soundboard into that, while routing audio from Skype and my Mic into two tracks via the Soundflower (64Ch) interface. It's not perfect, but it works. The other people on the Skype call hear me and my soundboard, but not themselves, but I can record everything in individual tracks on my end.

@yakk0dotorg. Cool deal. Like I said, I have no idea about Mac.

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Originally Posted by Dana

If you are not aware of the fact that you should NEVER record into your computer, now you know.

Many, many people have lost their interview of a life time by doing this only to lose their audio for maybe the power going out, their computer crashing half way through or the program they are using to record with, crashing as well. So you are on the right track as far as using an external digital recorder for your podcast.

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Be aware that not everyone agrees with Dana on this subject. 99.99% of recording studios, radio stations, TV stations, and networks use computers to record audio. It makes sense to use an external recorder as a safety backup for the interview of a lifetime or for remote interviews. If you use an external recorder, make sure that the SD card is not full, make sure that the HD card is not corrupt, make sure that the batteries are charged, make sure the audio settings (22kHz, 44kHz, 48kHz, 16-bit, 24-bit, 32-bit, ALC, SD card initialized, save location, SD card switching, etc.) are correct, and most of all, don't forget to hit record. Other than that, external recorders are pretty dependable.

That is the beautiful thing about a forum Mike.

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Originally Posted by Dana

That is the beautiful thing about a forum Mike. It is a place to share ideas. Now if Elle was inquireing about running a Recording Studio, Radio Station, TV Stations or a Network, then you may have a valid point. But since she is inquireing about Podcasting, I stand by my statement. One more thing, all the tech things you mentioned about how to set your digitial recorder, you should have added, that if you do make the mistake, of recording into your computer, you need to have all those setting set, as well, just like you mentioned abovel.

I really do not think she want to spend $10,000 to $14,000 dollars on a Pro DAWS system, hardware and CPUs to meet the same requirements as your tv, radio stations and thing of that nature.

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I can record perfect audio on a Pentium 3 running Windows 2000. I don't own a Pro DAW.

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Originally Posted by mcphillips

I can record perfect audio on a Pentium 3 running Windows 2000. I don't own a Pro DAW.

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I can record a 99.00% perfect audio using my iPhone 6, and render it in Audacity, free software, what's your point?

Dana, thanks for the link you provided. I'm planning to read through that information, I skimmed it and it seemed pretty useful. I'm also planning to go back and revisit the Tascam (and the Roland, too) to be sure that the audio recorder I decide on really is the best one for me. It's likely to be one of Tascam, Roland or Zoom.

Thanks for this yakk0dotorg, it's exactly what I was hoping for.

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I don't use a mixer and get a mix minus with Audio Hijack and Soundflower on my Mac. Skype uses Soundflower (2Ch) for the input and I have Audio Hijack routing the audio from my mic and soundboard into that, while routing audio from Skype and my Mic into two tracks via the Soundflower (64Ch) interface. It's not perfect, but it works. The other people on the Skype call hear me and my soundboard, but not themselves, but I can record everything in individual tracks on my end.

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Audio Hijack has a relatively new version (January 2015, from what I can see) Christopher Breen from MacWorld says of it:

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And speaking of podcasts, there’s Skype and its integration. You could incorporate Skype into previous versions of Audio Hijack, but doing so was confusing. It’s now much easier. Just drag in an Application block, configure it to record from Skype, drag in one or more Input Device blocks to record local audio sources, and have then all connect to a single Recorder block (and drag in an Output Device block to monitor the whole thing through your headphones).

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I'm wondering if this means that it's no longer necessary to combine it with Soundflower, that it can do the job alone. What version of Audio Hijack are you using?

I've just been told my mic has arrived (yay!) so I'll pick it up tomorrow then start to play around with it, Skype and Audio Hijack. I guess I'll soon work out whether it needs Soundflower as well.

Assuming that all works as it should re the Skype calls, does this mean that I can now go ahead and order an audio recorder and then be set up? My intention, if I'm recording with access to my computer, is to record primarily into that with the audio recorder as backup in case things go wrong. Skype calls would always be done this way. When I'm out in the field I would use the audio recorder as the primary recording mechanism and load the resulting file into my computer for post processing. That's the theory, but I've no hands on experience at this stage, so if I'm missing something here I'd appreciate any input.

I'll probably order the audio recorder from the US, as the price is significantly less than buying it in Australia, even after shipping and exchange rates. The drawback is that it's much more difficult to return anything if you get it wrong. So I'm doing as much testing 'third hand' as possible before I commit. So please weigh in with opinions and experience.
Elle

Good Morning Elle.

Very informative and interesting discussion. I can only speak based on my own workflow and what I have seen from others. Dana, in regards to the comment that "99.9% of podcasters agreeing that recording on an external recorder is a better option than a computer, I have to respectfully disagree. I do not record on an external recorder and never even considered doing so. We do however have redundant recordings on two different computers. The majority of people who are recording a podcast can do so by using their laptop/computer and not have any issues.

If you are looking to use an external recorder for a backup solution the Tascam DR-40 is a good option.

Both options are fine it just depends on what you think its a easier workflow.

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Originally Posted by Nateol

I'm wondering if this means that it's no longer necessary to combine it with Soundflower, that it can do the job alone. What version of Audio Hijack are you using?

I've just been told my mic has arrived (yay!) so I'll pick it up tomorrow then start to play around with it, Skype and Audio Hijack. I guess I'll soon work out whether it needs Soundflower as well.

Assuming that all works as it should re the Skype calls, does this mean that I can now go ahead and order an audio recorder and then be set up? My intention, if I'm recording with access to my computer, is to record primarily into that with the audio recorder as backup in case things go wrong. Skype calls would always be done this way. When I'm out in the field I would use the audio recorder as the primary recording mechanism and load the resulting file into my computer for post processing. That's the theory, but I've no hands on experience at this stage, so if I'm missing something here I'd appreciate any input.

I'll probably order the audio recorder from the US, as the price is significantly less than buying it in Australia, even after shipping and exchange rates. The drawback is that it's much more difficult to return anything if you get it wrong. So I'm doing as much testing 'third hand' as possible before I commit. So please weigh in with opinions and experience.
Elle

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I'm using the latest version of Audio Hijack. It is easier than older versions, but can also get complicated if you let it. I have to use Soundflower to get the audio into applications like Audacity. It makes it easy for me to route audio in Audio Hijack to a specific track in Audacity. It'll probably be easier to show you my workflow. This is the setup for my show audio:
http://www.yakk0.org/images/AH_TransMissionsRouting.png

Like I said earlier, Skype has the Soundflower (2ch) device set as it's input instead of my microphone. It does still have the AT2005 set as the output device. I have two Soundflower (64ch) output devices listed, and if I had the properties shown you would see that each is specifying a specific channel. In Audacity I have this device set as the input.

In Audio Hijack, I had to also have my AT2005 set as the output device in the middle of that window so I could also hear the sounds being routed through it.

I also have a second Audio Hijack session set up like this:
http://www.yakk0.org/images/AH_TransMissionsBackup.png

This is for a MP3 backup of everything. Myself and another host both do this so we have 2 backups of the whole Skype call in addition to everyone recording their own audio locally.

If you did want to use an external recorder as well, if the Mac can see it as an audio device, Audio Hijack can route audio to it as well.

There is a lot more to this discussion that is being said Andrew.

I agree Dana the people you have listed do provide very informative and positive information for the podcasting community but I wouldn't say its definitive way things need to be done. Like you said if we get 10 people in a room we will also get 10 different ways of doing the same thing.

Regarding making money when it comes to podcasting, my suggestion has always been to work on the content and build an audience before thinking about making money with it. Quality and content go a very long way when you are trying to build an audience. If no one is listening you will not be able to make money :) This is a great topic for another thread :)

@yakk0dotorg. Brother, I looked at your work flow for a solid 10 min and it looks impressive as well as, well pretty cool in the scheme of things.

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Originally Posted by andrewzarian

I agree Dana the people you have listed do provide very informative and positive information for the podcasting community but I wouldn't say its definitive way things need to be done. Like you said if we get 10 people in a room we will also get 10 different ways of doing the same thing.

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You are correct Sir.

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Originally Posted by Dana

@yakk0dotorg. Brother, I looked at your work flow for a solid 10 min and it looks impressive as well as, well pretty cool in the scheme of things. It also looks extremely complicated. I guess anything is till you learn how to use it. This is my work flow. Turn power switch on. Hit record. When I need to go remote, I just remove the Tascam from the tripod, the AKG from the boom arm, grab a 6 foot xlr to xlr and go. As far as Podcasting goes, that's all I need. The rest is nothing but pure fluff!

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I could simplify it a bit, as I don't use the browser audio and iTunes much in the shows. It started out simpler and built up as I needed to do things. I could probably get a small mixer and clean things up a lot, but I'm cheap. :)
For some recent remote podcasts interviews we did I just took my Blue Yeti and didn't use Audio Hijack at all. It was straight microphone to audacity and the Yeti was in the mode to record the whole room. I didn't want to make it complicated for the interview subjects at all. I have also recently bought an iRig Pre that lets me plug my AT2005 into my phone. It's a nice little tool to have, but I haven't had a chance to use it all that much.

The takeaway for me here is to hasten slowly. You've all provided lots for me to work through - thankyou.

I picked up the new ATR 2100 mic this morning and hooked it up to my mac. I can report that I succeeded in recording myself using garageband - and that it sounded like the worst amateur attempt you can imagine. Lots of room for improvement.

So I'll quietly work my way through the issues, adding software as required while keeping it as simple as I can. I'm sure I'll be back with more questions ...

Elle

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Originally Posted by Nateol

The takeaway for me here is to hasten slowly. You've all provided lots for me to work through - thankyou.

I picked up the new ATR 2100 mic this morning and hooked it up to my mac. I can report that I succeeded in recording myself using garageband - and that it sounded like the worst amateur attempt you can imagine. Lots of room for improvement.

So I'll quietly work my way through the issues, adding software as required while keeping it as simple as I can. I'm sure I'll be back with more questions ...

Elle

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Congrats!! Getting to actually record is the first step. It will get better every time you record a new show.

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Originally Posted by Nateol

I succeeded in recording myself using garageband

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That's all you need. Now practice, practice, practice.

Appreciate the words of encouragement. Already, 24 hours in, I've ordered my second bit of equipment. It's the small Fethead preamp. I'm finding, as many on the forum have discussed, that with just mic and computer I need to crank the recording levels up too far to get clean sound.

I was pre-disposed towards the DBX 286s but size and weight issues led me to the Fethead. It'll take a while to get here I suppose - I ordered it from Holland. Of the two Australian suppliers, one's account was frozen by Paypal and the other charged almost exactly double the cost of my ordering it directly. It's an ongoing problem here once you leave mass market items.

So I'll keep practising with dirty sound until the Fethead arrives. It'll give me time to write scripts for the first few podcasts. I think I'll leave winging it till I know what I'm doing. Plus it will give me a transcript that I can post for those who prefer to read (that's often me).

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Originally Posted by Nateol

So I'll keep practising with dirty sound until the Fethead arrives. It'll give me time to write scripts for the first few podcasts. I think I'll leave winging it till I know what I'm doing. Plus it will give me a transcript that I can post for those who prefer to read (that's often me).

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Well done! As with anything in life, you will learn as you go.

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Originally Posted by yakk0dotorg

I have also recently bought an iRig Pre that lets me plug my AT2005 into my phone. It's a nice little tool to have, but I haven't had a chance to use it all that much.

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I have heard nothing but great things about this product!

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Originally Posted by Dana

I have heard nothing but great things about this product! In fact, I have decided to buy the same unit instead of going with an external mic that plugs into the bottom of my iPhone. It is way more versatile and will allow me to swap out different mics for different recording situations. Please keep me informed on how you like it and any incite you can give on tips and tricks!

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I've got a personal podcast I've been doing to play around with things and have done a couple episodes with the Pre and the Bossjock app on my iPad and it worked really well. I use an AT2005 and the thing works great with it. The local monitoring through the headphone jack on the Pre is excellent. Now it's just a matter of finding the right problem that I can use my new tool on. :)

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Originally Posted by yakk0dotorg

I've got a personal podcast I've been doing to play around with things and have done a couple episodes with the Pre and the Bossjock app on my iPad and it worked really well. :)

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Hey Brother, shoot me a link to some of the audio you have done.

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Originally Posted by Dana

Hey Brother, shoot me a link to some of the audio you have done. I promise you two things. 1. I don't criticize. It is not my nature. I grew up by the fist and have no desire to belittle anyone, regardless of their experiance. My goal in life is to show encouragement. 2. I am always eager to learn and I could care less of anyone's experience. If I like it, then I like it and that seals the deal! :p

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Thanks! I just realized I didn't have a signature set up. I've just created one with the links to my shows.

Thanks Brother.

OK Brother. I am going to give a two part review of the links you provided.

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Originally Posted by Dana

OK Brother. I am going to give a two part review of the links you provided. Please read the entire review, before you comment.

1. I have no interest in what your show is about. I would never subscribe to your show or your iTune channel. I just have no interest in your content, as this is just not my bag, scene, thing, or hobby.

2. Your audio IS SOME OF THE BEST I HAVE EVER HEARD! Your show, the way you have it laid out, is GREAT!! I often look for Instructors that can convey the passion, that you have in your show, in your podcast, that deals with the millions that are interested in what you have to say.

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Thanks for the kind words! We've tried to make sure the audio quality was high on our show. We record using double enders and have used things like Levelator from the beginning. I don't like listening to shows with bad audio, so I wanted to make sure our shows sound good.