Internet Broadcasting - Making It a Career

[Spencer Kobren]

Who here hopes to make Internet Broadcasting their career, and if you do, how do you plan on making it happen?

[andrewzarian]

I do! I have been doing it full time for 2 years. You just need to take it one day at a time. Dont go into it with the idea that you are going to make money. Start out as a hobby

[BradShoemaker]

I certainly do, and am already half way there.

We have a healthy advertising budget (not huge, but healthy enough to keep the lights on). The next step is figuring out how to grow the audience while growing the advertising dollar. Although I am not a big fan of advertising, it is what it is and until we are in a good enough spot to seek out something different than this is the road we will continue on.

My ultimate goal would be to have two separate type of shows. The Entertainment show which would be paid for by the Corporate show (a show we produce for a company as their marketing tool). Until that happens; however, advertising is still our key to success.

[mcphillips]

I'd love to, but it's probably not in the cards. If I help enough other people get their acts together, maybe they'll cut me in.

[Jadori]

I would like to make a career out of my blogs and podcasts however I feel that since there are not a lot of podcasts out there that deal with what I do it will be hard. Also the kind of broadcaster is similar to the likes of Joan Rivers and Wendy Williams so it will be hard for me to appeal to the mainstream media and be marketable. I refuse to become a media minority stereotype for women of color.

[cseeman]

I don't think at all one has to be "mainstream" to be marketable. In fact that may well lead to failure. You can target a niche market that may be very attractive to advertisers. If your goal is to make money selling advertising one should make a very serious study of ad sales and target marketing and be willing to focus on sales skills. It's a serious mistake to think that most advertisers need mass audience.

While I don't sell ads for my shows, I have produced local cable spots and done media buys. If your goal is selling time one has to know what advertisers are looking for and how to sell it.

If you have a strong skill set you're not at all limited to selling time on your own shows. You can get hired producing and engineering live streams for various clients.

[NickSPNT]

I have made it my goal to be a full time podcaster/internet broadcaster within the next 5 years. Its what I love to do. At some point these shows I'm producing have to become profitable sometime right??? Gosh I hope so.

[Jadori]

Cseeman in regard to what you have mentioned. From most of the successful podcasters had to appeal to a mainstream audience in order to a making a living out of it. It is hard to stay independent and not team up with people to be successful in this podcasting industry. Although I seen a few exceptions, but most new people like me are not given a chance unless you have someone supporting you or you have gain a larger niche audience which since I deal with race in the entertainment industry and talk about new media culture in regards to culture the audience is not really big for that in my opinion in order for sponsors or people to take me seriously. I feel that is the only way in order to gain creditability. I have tried to get sponsors and they have not given me a chance. I think because of what I deal with is a "risky" subject matter for them.

[cseeman]

In order to get sponsors you have to have a deliverable audience.
You have to show analytics to potential advertisers and, if possible, demographics.
Advertisers want to see the numbers and they general know the comparative rates to other mediums.
The only risk is if they feel you'll have a negative rather than positive financial impact on business.
If you prove valuable one of two things may happen. You do get picked up by a more successful "network" or you start your own.
I know some very risky podcasters. They started in journalism though and built names so that when they went independent they're able to get funding. Yes pre established relationships are a major help. Sometimes you have to work part time for one of them while you develop on your own.

[Jadori]

I am grateful the advice cseeman. But, I would rather start off as independent because then I feel that I have control over my content. I feel sometimes that people want to be something that I am not in regards to dealing with commercial mainstream media. They want to change my hair and personality. I know I will have a longer climb to the top but I feel that it will be worth it.

[cseeman]

Mainstream is certainly all about image making.
The "indies" I know of who are getting attention always seem to have grown up in the system to some extent and then decided to break free. Even they struggle to some extent although they seem to at least make ends meet.
I don't think the past ties have specifically helped though. In many cases they seem to have burned bridges by going indy. What they've taken with them though is probably an understanding of the business side of things. Most of the circles I deal with are in news. I think there's a real struggle to find a working business model.

[Donovan]

Personally, I think as an indie, you have to be so controversial on either side of the spectrum before anyone will give you the time of day, aka - shock jocks.

Just don't do that when you still have a full time job. You may find yourself without it. :)

Just thinking out loud.

[cseeman]

Donovan, so very true about being controversial.
Glen Ford is one example. He used to be part of Mutual Black Network and also did "Rap it Up" which was syndicated to a lot of standard radio stations
Eventually he started the very radical Black Agenda Report.
http://blackagendareport.com
His controversial podcast got him a show on Progressive Radio Network. An internet Radio channel that the famed Gary Null is involved in. They also stream live on Ustream.
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/the-gary-null-show
and their website with podcasts
http://prn.fm/#axzz2E6UVVa5t

Another one is Paul Jay who used to host a show on CBC (Canadian Broadcast Corporation)
He started TheRealNewsNetwork
He does daily podcast with guest via Skype discussing news from controversial positions. He posts them on YouTube and embeds on his website.
http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=767&Itemid=74&jumival=9258
They are viewer funded (no advertising) yet they pull in hundreds of thousands of dollars a year so it seems.
They singed a contract with McClatchy Newspapers who apparently will be posting some of the TRNN podcast on their own online sites. They also have a contract to deliver content to TIVO now.
I've heard they're aiming to get on cable as on On Demand offering.

Certainly these would be considered extreme by some yet, apparently, very ambitious entrepreneurs.
Even though they're controversial, they started with mainstream media and broke away at some point to push the envelope.

The real challenge is starting indy but even than being indy isn't quite the same as being solo. Probably working with a group to create a channel so you can build on each other's audience can help. Then you have a "single product" to market. Depending on the content one can seek advertising or distribution deals when the "product" becomes big enough. The other option is to go "Non Profit" in which donations would be tax deductible and, once again, build up the value to develop contractual distribution relationships.

The thing is, even mainstream folks are going "indy." Larry King (you didn't really think he was retiring when he left CNN) now is Ora.TV
http://www.ora.tv
and without much content is already going to be on Hulu. Obviously they're selling a "name."

Some feel the "real indies" are getting pushed out. You'll hear that from those who rose to success on YouTube as YouTube starts funding and developing for what appears to be much higher end "talent."

[BradShoemaker]

I don't know that being controversial is always the ticket to breaking out. You also don't have to be from the old school system to break out, you just have to find your audience. Go to them instead of letting them find you. It is easier said than done.

There is a weird trend in radio, whether it translates to Internet Broadcasting or not remains to be seen. The people who take off and capture their audience typically holds onto them for whatever reason more so than in TV. Take the following shows: Jim Rome, Bob & Tom (for those in the midwest), Rush Limbaugh, Howard Stern (before his move to Satellite), Mike & Mike on ESPN, etc... these shows have been on forever and although audience share might be waning a bit for each of them, they are still big mainstays that grabbed an audience and never let them go.

People tend to do that more with radio shows than with TV shows... TV shows eventually jump the shark, but your morning talk shows, your sports and political shows, etc... it's a conversation you enjoy daily and they never seem to get old to the vast majority.

So find your audience, grow them, and keep them. Everyone has to start somewhere, even the giants of media got their start and built their audience.

[cseeman]

Rush Limbaugh, Howard Stern, they seem to fall into "shock jock" extreme by some standards.
It's different with sports or "special interest" programing like tech. Special interest audiences generally stick.
TV itself has a shorter life cycle for various reasons . . . and I think that's why podcasting or live streaming has an advantage.

TV, you're competing against a schedule that may pull viewers elsewhere. Sometimes personal schedules of viewers change.
"Portable mediums" like radio (or podcasting) you can take anywhere. In the case of recorded content like podcasts, it's always at the viewers convenience so you don't get the schedule conflict.

Live streaming, while it may have a schedule, is at least more portable and, once recorded, the "rerun" viewing is entirely at the control of the viewer. Also live streaming, if there's audience participation, is much more like talk radio in terms of viewer involvement and attachment to a show. Also "unscheduled" live streaming can be sustained by strong social media marketing.

[Donovan]

On another note - I think trying to do a podcast based on technical news or the latest and greatest gadgets is pretty much pissing in the wind. With so many heavyweights already on the "air" (TWiT, GFQNetwork, etc.), it's very hard to compete. I made the decision today to end my SouthGeek Ramble and Review podcast after 62 episodes. My numbers, at their highest, were around 100 to 125 downloads per episode. Here lately, they're down around 25 to 40. I've only made around $30 from one contributor. I did the Audible.com promos, etc. At one time, I considered the show my flagship for my network, but that seems to have shifted to our beer related show, the Ben on Beer show. Who knew, right? Beer is more entertaining. :)

Sorry for the negativity today; guess I haven't had enough coffee. It's just frustrating to put so much effort into something that you love with absolutely no payback whatsoever. Wait - I think that can fall under the definition of insanity.

Oh well, that's life, right? :)

[BradShoemaker]

Donovan,

I wouldn't say don't try to knock down the heavy weights in an area, you just have to be prepared for the very real knowledge that it is an overcrowded market with a lot of big names already doing it, but people in the media knock out the Goliath all the time... it's just hard to do and takes a while to get established.

That being said, if there is one thing that is certain about media it is that no matter what you think is going to be popular, the people will help guide to what is truly popular (I mean look at some of the new flagship shows TV throws out there and watch how many of them get the mid season replacement).

As you stated, the heavy weights became too much to take down in your tech podcast, but your beer podcast is unique and people who enjoy that subject will find it and there you can become a heavy weight. So look at the bright side, you found a good show, grow it.

[mcphillips]

The major TV networks drop shows all the time. The public are a fickle group. Almost everything in media is trial and error, mostly error.

Find your niche and go after it. Sometimes - maybe usually - you will discover one by accident. There's nothing wrong with that.

I felt like your "Fired" show was a great idea. Any show will take time to build.

[Donovan]

I felt like your "Fired" show was a great idea. Any show will take time to build.

Well, I had a burning passion for that one when I first started it. But I felt I could only complain and give advice for so long. I didn't end it, I just changed the concept a little. It's still about being fired, but my thought was to focus it more on how to use being fired as a springboard to something better - your own business. But, as with a great many things lately, I'm starting to doubt my knowledge about anything.

But, you're right - networks kill shows all the time, even when the show is doing pretty well - just not well enough for the standards of the network. And, yes, the public is fickle on many things.

Anyway, my apologies if my posts have started tracking a bit off topic.

[Linuxcooldude]

On another note - I think trying to do a podcast based on technical news or the latest and greatest gadgets is pretty much pissing in the wind. With so many heavyweights already on the "air" (TWiT, GFQNetwork, etc.), it's very hard to compete.

For me I don't think I need too or have to compete. I do offer things that such a show don't or can't do. Since I have a smaller audience I can get more on a personal level you can't with a larger group. Which are often ignored or can't possibly talk to every person as there are too many. I have quite a loyal following with some viewers watching a year or more every week. Probably due to the interaction you can give to them.

I stopped uploading entire shows, unless a guest is on. I find uploading the separate topic or demonstration retains more viewer attention if its kept at about 4 minutes or less. So while an entire show might not get much views, my individual topics or demo videos can occasionally go to the thousands range if its a popular subject.

I also Co-host the Techwebcast & broadcast the live version from my studio every week right after my show. Since they are a pre-recorded audio podcast it helps both of us out. It gives my viewers more content to watch and the Techwebcast more exposure. Since a lot of guests are quite in the mainstream, often well known, It makes me feel I contribute something too.

Its quite amazing to watch TV and see that companies comercial that you just interviewed a week ago! ( Zeebox ) Or even in talks with Apple for a possible buyout ( Color App ) ( Didn't realize how big they were at the time or were going to be. ) None of which were my guests but being a co-host on another show for so long does have its advantages I guess.

So you can find different ways to think outside the box to make your show different from everybody else's.

Of course, it depends on what you want to get out of it or if its worth it for yourself.

[andrewzarian]

It really comes down to the demo and how dedicated they are. I have seen people with "specialty" shows that have about 1000-2000 viewers and they are able to generate great revenue because of the demo they are targeting with ads. I have also seen some Podcast that have a very large audience but they cant generate anything. The size of the audience plays a part but viewer dedication is what makes you money

[Podnutter]

Wondering if you guys have done affiliate ads or have you gotten advertisers to pay you up front. when i listen to a podcast most of the time they have affiliate ads

[Spencer Kobren]

Great stuff!

I love this business, and I think the reason I've been able to make it my career, is because I was forced to think outside the box from day one in order to get my program cleared on radio. Being an independent broadcaster forced me to be a business man. I wasn't just a content creator, who sat behind the mic and got a pay check at the end of the week. In order to keep my show on the air, I had to learn how to sell it , and in many cases I had to think of creative ways to make that happen.

I learned early on that the business of radio was all smoke and mirrors, and the people in charge knew nothing about making money.

For me it was the perfect scenario to grow my business. (yes, I think of my show as a business because that what any successful program is.) These guys didn't know what the f@#k was going on, but they had the transmitter and call letters and I knew that with my credibility in my field I could sell my program at a premium and turn a profit from day one. It worked, and I learned many invaluable lessons along the way.

The internet gives us endless opportunities to grow our "businesses,"…We just have to keep thinking outside of the box.

[washproof]

I was able to go 'Pro' this year, after being made redundant from a long term job in the art trade, I started a local social enterprise.

The project was to establish a local community web based TV station for my town. I did this for the sole reason that it would enable me to network with the towns other social enterprise groups, many of which are run by local business persons, and also to grab the attention of any of the local creative agencies in hope of finding work.

After shopping the idea around town, it received alot of interest from a community radio station. After a meeting with the owner of the radio station, we agreed to run the radio and video broadcasts side by side under the same brand,and their sponsors become our sponsors.

All this has allowed me to go self employed and make a wage while learning the trade.