Paying for your CDN - Is it worth it to pay to stream live

[andrewzarian]

While listening to Comptuers2know (http://www.computers2know.com/) yesterday the discussion of paying for a CDN came up. Even though services like Justin.tv, Stickam, Bambuser and Ustream do a great job some of them have gone overboard with the ads.

Do any of you pay for a streaming CDN. If show who do you use?

[William Thomas]

My setup is at Livestream and Justintv and i dont see the difference in the amount of ads. However I have not watched enough of their content to have a accurate account of how many commercials they have. I cannot pay their fees no matter how high they are. Not now.

[Chase Nunes]

Currently, we use Justin.tv (twitch.tv). None of our viewers have ever complained about the ads, they tend to be nonintrusive and it's not that bad.

One thing to note though, is most ad blockers, block those ads.

[Amnon]

Currently, we use Justin.tv (twitch.tv). None of our viewers have ever complained about the ads, they tend to be nonintrusive and it's not that bad.
One thing to note though, is most ad blockers, block those ads.
The ads we had problems with are are not the standard banner ads at the bottom, but the pre-roll and mid-roll videos that ustream was running. These videos do not cache your video when they play, and then continue where you left off, but they cut (depending on their length) a chunk of your show. So if you are doing a "who done it" type of show, and they decided to run a mid-roll add right when you were going to announce the 'who done it' the audience would miss it.
As a result of the bambuser two hours down time last Wed. evening, right in the middle of one of our shows, I decided to subscribe to Dacast (dacast.com), after hearing about them from Tom Sinclair (thatvidblasterguy.com). Their rates are reasonable, $25 a month ($19 if you pay yearly) for 100GB of bandwidth and unlimited viewers. What you don't use, rolls to the next month. I am going to use their service as a backup for now.

[BradShoemaker]

In the process of changing a lot of the things we do and one of those is finding which alternative to UStream I want to make my streamng provider of choice. UStream is great when it comes to a lot of things, but the ads drive me insane (maybe the listeners don't care)...

I mean if it were just a pre-roll, fine. They have to take their cut, but we hear about it when people are trying to watch and they get cut off by an ad right in the middle of a great story.

I am on the fence about ad blockers. I don't like penalizing a company for needing to cover the bills... at the same time, UStream, especially, goes overboard with their annoying ads. I am looking at DaCast.com and TVoop.com as backups as well.

[andrewzarian]

I am willing to pay for something that can offer me these few things at an affordable rate.

HD Video
No Ads
Adjustable Bitrate for the stream

[cseeman]

Any CDN that offers control of the ads such all viewers see them at the same time would have a wining free solution.
If you could just break for a commercial at one would do in broadcast TV, people would flock to that service.

A while back I did speak to one CDN that said ad based free streaming isn't very profitable. It barely covers costs so they claimed. Being a paid CDN makes much more business sense.
DaCast starter price certainly does look reasonable for a show starting out.
http://www.dacast.com/streaming-pricing-plans.html

[andrewzarian]

So how are these CDNS surviving ? Stickam , Ustream and JTV have all been here for a while. I would imagine the costs are insane to keep them running.

[cseeman]

So how are these CDNS surviving ? Stickam , Ustream and JTV have all been here for a while. I would imagine the costs are insane to keep them running.

Andrew, this is a very good question. I suspect some are still searching for and revising their business model. Almost all are built on venture capital and some "angel" funding. Ustream, for example, has played with various paid models ranging from Watershed, now Ustream's own paid service, users themselves paying to eliminate ads. These companies generally don't reveal their financial situation. I suspect the venture capital is keeping them afloat.

BTW I'd also note that one of the potential ad buyers is us, content producers. My own CDN has been asking me if we'd like to buy advertising to boost the audience. This would mean running ads for our show, during other producer's shows.

There are, from what I understand, fundamental problems with the value of ad buys for online video. It's across the entire industry whether it's the repurposing of broadcast content or direct to internet live content. It's severely undervalued by the ad buyers compared to broadcast/cablecast.

BTW I think the economics of the industry is a worthy thread topic on its own. Not only from the producer but understanding the CDNs as well.

[NASNTrevor]

Use Ustream at the moment, partnered with them after some successful live broadcasts. Got them to build a custom tool to let me cue up ads during the broadcast, which has been received extremely well by viewers.

Also talking with Veetle.com, one of the best high quality live streaming sites I've come across.

[andrewzarian]

@NASNTrevor - How much does it cost per month. Or did you guys do some sort of sponsorship

[NASNTrevor]

@NASNTrevor - How much does it cost per month. Or did you guys do some sort of sponsorship

No cost, was able to convince them to enter into a rev share situation. We control ad placement during the broadcast, which makes them significantly more effective and don't have to pay any monthly rates.

[BradShoemaker]

Interesting approach. Also, I had never heard of Veetle.com until now. Looking into it.

[NASNTrevor]

Interesting approach. Also, I had never heard of Veetle.com until now. Looking into it.

It's great on the consumer side, reliable, high quality streams. Not the best platform for a lot of content, but as I'm sports focused, it's a destination for many sports fans already.

[sidimustafa]

I gived www.dacast.co a try, for 20.00 and 100gb data per month, with roll over, it's GOOD

I only did the 20.00 option to give it a try, however they want a commit for 3 months,
we do daily shows, but i'll prefer the 200.00 PRE-PAID option, as it will give me a more long run time.

I use to use www.streamingprovider.co.uk, very nice CDN also with PPV, and lots of goodies, but there are minimim i think 50.00 per month.

Dacast, got just what the average broadcaster needs, and there is a built in template in wirecast.

give it a try..

Support is also great.

[jamesdelfresco]

can you do HD with Dacast?

[sidimustafa]

I would believe so, since i can't broadcast in HD, (ISP don't allow so much upload) i never took note.

[PaulSaunders]

I am looking for a Paid Live streaming service that wont break the bank. Can anyone suggest a few. I saw that this thread is pretty old now. any updates to servies ?

[cseeman]

It depends on how large your bank is and what the specifics are for your streams.
In some cases, frequent streamers with large audiences need a price range which is a bargain for them but cost prohibitive for someone with occasional streams and small audiences. Sometimes a very low price can be very expensive with overages. You have to buy "the right size" but without info, it's hard to make suggestions.

Livestream, Ustream, DaCast, TikiLive, Make.TV, Bambuser are just a few of many. The better you explain your specifics the better someone can find the right fit.

[rwildman]

Has anyone taken a look at Scale Engine (https://www.scaleengine.com/)? Looks like their live streaming rates are fairly reasonable, considering my needs.

[TalkNet]

I don't know; it's worth it for the 5 second delay alone but why do that when you can set up your own server or use a service that also does RMTP streaming. I mean I need the least delayable stream possible for the network but I don't want to do Ustream because it's expensive or any other service because I need special software that does not support OBS.

Just my two cents.

[andrewzarian]

I don't know; it's worth it for the 5 second delay alone but why do that when you can set up your own server or use a service that also does RMTP streaming. I mean I need the least delayable stream possible for the network but I don't want to do Ustream because it's expensive or any other service because I need special software that does not support OBS.

Just my two cents.

Yup.. so thats kinda the same situation that we are in. Is it worth spending the money for the 3-5 second delay / no pre roll? What we need to do it spend the money and get a new CDN for our video on demand content. Archive is not cutting it for us